Character
So there is an interesting debate going on on the official forums over tanks marking (or not marking) targets.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/142707-New-Quest-to-teach-Tanks-what-Marking-is-for.-Mandatory-Please.TBH, marked targets are for n00bs. By that I mean no disrespect for new players. In fact I love playing with new players. But an experienced MMO players doesn't need paint by numbers for trash mobs. In fact, merely by killing mobs, they get marked. In other words, DDs should hit the target with the lowest health. Except in rare cases, if you're a DD and you're not attacking the mob with the lowest health you are not doing your job correctly.
There are very few exceptions to whether or not targets need to be marked. One case is in AK, for the fact that specific mobs in certain groups should be killed before others, and secondly there is an abundance of fresh 50s in that instance (due to the relic quest).
So IMO, targets needing to be marked is the exception rather than the rule.
BLM here. I appreciate and thank anyone who marks at least target 1. I use Deep Sleep in the lower level dungeons and hate when the other dps wakes them up unnecessarily. It is best, I think, to go ahead and mark because you don't know if the other players will know to hit one target like you mentioned.
cont. Also, targeting on the ps3 is not... great. ^^; If I have to cycle through the targets a few times to find the one that is being hit, I'm wasting time. Mark with 1 and this is a non issue. Of course this is all my personal opinion. :)
Noticed more tanks not marking that much anymore, which is fine if they're able to maintain/keep hate off pt. However if a tank is having problems, marking targets could help better focus the pt. Just my thoughts, everyone has their own. Personally when I was working on my war, I didn't really get into marking targets until Toto-Rak, at which point I started marking at least 1-2 targets which helped me. We all have our own styles tho which is fine; whatever works.
2 things: Sleep is AOE for BLM, and second, taking a few seconds to make sure you have the right target is actually a benefit to the group rather than a hindrance. The reason to mark mobs is mostly for hate issues, by taking slightly longer you are reducing the potential for hate related issues.
Another thing is that with WAR, all I have to do is spam the hell out of overpower to keep hate on a group. Add in a couple steel cyclones and butcher's block combo and nothing is getting away.
I agree with Valia. If I'm on my WHM, I'll usually try to sleep the other mobs in the group if I can (and there's not a BLM in the party). This is made easier if the first target is marked. Especially when playing on a PS3.
However, in most cases there is no need for sleep, and as a WAR I'm going to be waking those mobs up anyway to keep hate.
Please use Flash instead?
OP is much more effective on WAR than flash as it pulls more hate and does damage. When there is little risk of me dying as tank from too much damage (because nothing is sleeping) I will allow nothing to sleep, because if so, I'm not performing optimally. The way I play WAR is to ensure not only that I'm holding hate and using my defensive skills to stay alive, but also to do as much damage as possible while doing so.
When mobs are allowed to sleep, the tank takes less damage. Less damage = less healing = more chance for healer to add to DPS. Maybe this is why I prefer healing Paladins over Warriors.
A healers job is to heal and only DPS when there is no healing to do. If I'm not doing OP and Steel cyclone so that the healer can DPS, the healer is really only making up for the DPS I'm not doing.
^^ not to mention the DPS the rest of the team is not doing so that the other mobs can stay asleep. The only reason to sleep a group of mobs is if they will kill the tank if left unslept, or the group needs to get by them w/out taking damage.
Bottom line, there are very few instances where target marks are needed. Most of the time the DDs don't follow the marks anyway.
Yes, people are horrible about following marks. I'm just saying that it's nice to be able to sleep mobs in certain situations, for example in places like Brayflox where the difficulty is a bit higher compared to previous instances. It makes the whole thing easier, especially on people who are new.
Yes, certain instances it can be advantageous, such as in AK with an under-geared tank (or an entire party of under-geared players) where mob groups can fairly easily wipe the group, or where a certain mob needs to die very quickly otherwise there is more danger introduced.
However, my post is mostly in regards to those saying basically "mark mobs or you suck as a tank". I believe that in most cases, if DDs need marks, it's not the tank that sucks. 99.9% of the time marks are not needed at all.
In 1.0 we didn't have marks except in levequests, and nobody ever complained about not knowing which mob to hit. In all honesty, I think marks are a crutch that allows DDs to be lazy and pay less attention to what they are doing than without the marks.
I can definitely see your point there. Personally, I don't think a tank sucks if he/she doesn't mark. I'm usually happy if I DO see marks, and I try to mark targets if I am tanking (which doesn't happen often - I'm a crappy tank). I do find myself not paying as much attention as a DD if I'm following marks.
So you might be on to something. Maybe they are making us lazy and I just never saw it before!
I mean, I get it, marks make things easier assuming everyone follows them, but IMO that's exactly the problem. They lull DDs into complacency. I would rather have my DDs making those decisions; ie., know which target to hit regardless of a mark.
When I play tank, I mark mobs because I don't want a dps doing my job.
marking is more for the tanks benefit... not the dps... I see tanks mark because they cant hold hate more than anything... jus sayin
I mark targets even in parties with people I know if they're not on voice with me. It's not a "n00b" thing at all. It just makes coordination easier and lets me indicate my intentions to other party members. On voice I can call audibles. In text I don't have time for it, but a quick numbering and the whole party can move together. The only place they're mostly worthless is anywhere full of AoE with two BLMs.
In PUGs they're damn near mandatory at early levels when you don't have all your hate holding tools yet. Halatali with no marks and DPS on wrong targets is a tremendous pain in the ass.
@Madora Is not a matter whether it benefit tanks or hate issue. Marking is there so for coordination as Slade had stated. If a dps does things on their own and targets randomly. That just makes things harder on both tanker and healer. There some instance where I don't use it, but most of the times I do.
Keep in mind that as a tank I get constant compliments in PUGs and among friends for basically being a brick wall covered in glue. Getting hate off me is extremely hard. I just prefer focused fire tactics for a number of reasons, and marking targets is the simplest way to facilitate that.
I just attack the first target the tank hits. then the next with the least health. If the tank marks then all the better.
I was thinking to start marking mobs I'm going to sleep after the tank has finished their numbering of them to help aid in all the confusion. Do other people do this already?
Is the best strategy for DPS just hit he target that the TANK is attacking? Im a Botanist (I dont TANK lemons)so...I need to ask. (I always read Franchesca Ridill because is my spiritual (tanking?)guide in Eorzea)
@Linna Gosh, you flatter me~♡
I'll say this, most smooth runs are when everyone is on the same page with the tanker. Dps are not equipped to take abuse. So it's only natural to see their hp drop fast, which then not only hindrance the healer now where their were focus on the tanker but then on the dps. Healers build enmity through healing let's not forget. A lot of focus is involved when tanking which I'm sure you know.
First off, marking takes...3 seconds? How valuable is 3 seconds?
I find that if I play as a DPS, if the tank doesn't mark, I just focus on the target that they Shield Lobbed/Tomahawked first. Then the problem comes in. While waiting for the tank to pick his/her next target, I'm a sitting duck for a while. Just kinda breaks the immersion of being able to continuously attack.
If the tank doesn't mark, I as the non-tank would take up the marking job, to make it easier for everyone.
Many DPS have no idea how to tell what the tank is attacking. This is another way of saying "Many DPS suck."
If I can unsuck the DPS by marking, that's what I'll do. :-D
^ Basically. Reduce the chances of things messing up. It's a 3 second job to potentially save me 3 minutes, then it's a good trade off in my eyes.
You can give a 5% chance for things to mess up because you don't mark. I prefer to drop it to 1% simply by marking. 5% isn't a lot, so if you're fine with not marking go for it. I do it out of habit as well.
IDK whet everyone's issue is with hate. I don't play PLD much, but with WAR, if you hit OP a few times, then steel cyclone, you're not going to lose hate even if a DD is attacking a mob that you aren't. It's not an issue of hate, it's an issue of most DDs not knowing how to play their job. A DDs job is to hit stuff, but it's also their job to know what to hit regardless of whether something is marked or not.
